Alignment Cam Eliminator Kit

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,959
Age
31
Location
Yucaipa, CA
Hahaha - you DIY guys are funny. Put that thing on a rack and see what you’ve actually got and report back. :)

folks confuse shitty alignment techs with ‘don’t need expensive equipment’ - but it ain’t so.
I guess it depends on how perfect you actually want your alignment. I can see if mine was a daily driver that saw dirt a few times a year, but I'm well beyond that point. I only drive to the trail half the time I go wheeling. Only time I have had the alignment guys actually adjust the alignment in the past 2+ years has been just to center the wheel and set toe. I'm sure my alignment isn't near perfect, but it's way better than my cams moving or breaking constantly.

I really think it depends on the needs/wants of the owner.
 

4runner DOA

Hold my beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
15,896
Location
OC
I guess it depends on how perfect you actually want your alignment. I can see if mine was a daily driver that saw dirt a few times a year, but I'm well beyond that point. I only drive to the trail half the time I go wheeling. Only time I have had the alignment guys actually adjust the alignment in the past 2+ years has been just to center the wheel and set toe. I'm sure my alignment isn't near perfect, but it's way better than my cams moving or breaking constantly.

I really think it depends on the needs/wants of the owner.

I just need my alignment good enough to get to/from the trails. I need to rotate more often though because of it. I can see the outside edge on the front starting to wear so I'll rotate those before I go out in a couple weeks. Otherwise she just sits between trips most of the time so it's not a big deal.
 
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
63
Age
47
Location
SoCal
Hahaha - you DIY guys are funny. Put that thing on a rack and see what you’ve actually got and report back. :)

folks confuse shitty alignment techs with ‘don’t need expensive equipment’ - but it ain’t so.

Ill bet you a case of beer my alignment is better than what any shop will do for me. The problem with machines is they arent humans. You can set alignment to specific numbers all day long but setting the alignment to how it actually DRIVES is a much better way to do it. Toe is a great example. Toe "spec" is way too wide. There is a narrow band of 1/32" where it will be "perfect" for how a particular driver wants it to feel. I'm not talking about tire wear, I'm talking about vehicle handling. Some drivers prefer a little toe out so its loose and snappy, others prefer toe in so its tight and stable.

Some people want even caster so they can feel the road surface, others want side loaded so it drives straight on road crown...

An alignment shop will never spend the time you need to dial it in properly for how you want it to drive
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
Hahaha - you DIY guys are funny. Put that thing on a rack and see what you’ve actually got and report back. :)

folks confuse shitty alignment techs with ‘don’t need expensive equipment’ - but it ain’t so.

Ohh, I will. But this will be a much better method than trying to calculate deltas from the last known measurements. And frankly, Camber/Caster are pretty high tolerance for a offroad suspension truck anyway, even if you are on the road.

Ill bet you a case of beer my alignment is better than what any shop will do for me. The problem with machines is they arent humans. You can set alignment to specific numbers all day long but setting the alignment to how it actually DRIVES is a much better way to do it. Toe is a great example. Toe "spec" is way too wide. There is a narrow band of 1/32" where it will be "perfect" for how a particular driver wants it to feel. I'm not talking about tire wear, I'm talking about vehicle handling. Some drivers prefer a little toe out so its loose and snappy, others prefer toe in so its tight and stable.

Some people want even caster so they can feel the road surface, others want side loaded so it drives straight on road crown...

An alignment shop will never spend the time you need to dial it in properly for how you want it to drive

I've got a local shop that will actually do what I tell them, and give me a report with the numbers set where I asked, but it's expensive and they won't take the UCAs off to make adjustments. So now I have to that myself, then get them to measure, and then make any adjustments as needed.
 

eimkeith

IFSFFS.
Official Vendor
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
817
Age
52
Location
NC
Ill bet you a case of beer my alignment is better than what any shop will do for me. . .
An alignment shop will never spend the time you need to dial it in properly for how you want it to drive

I've got a local shop that will actually do what I tell them, and give me a report with the numbers set where I asked, but it's expensive. . .

Right - Firestone lifetime type shit doesn't cut it; you need a good alignment tech who will bill by the hour for quality work. It'll kill the homebrew setup, every time.

It's not so much a question of quality; it's actually a question of price, right?

FWIW, I'm usually on the rack for about 3 hours to set up an alignment, and that usually includes scales. :shrug:
 

eimkeith

IFSFFS.
Official Vendor
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
817
Age
52
Location
NC
oh, also I should add - I give my Toyota buddies free rack time on my equipment (I show them what to do and turn them loose)
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
Right - Firestone lifetime type shit doesn't cut it; you need a good alignment tech who will bill by the hour for quality work. It'll kill the homebrew setup, every time.

It's not so much a question of quality; it's actually a question of price, right?

FWIW, I'm usually on the rack for about 3 hours to set up an alignment, and that usually includes scales. :shrug:

That's about right. And yeah, it's really about the marginal return on the money.
 
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
63
Age
47
Location
SoCal
Ohh, I will. But this will be a much better method than trying to calculate deltas from the last known measurements. And frankly, Camber/Caster are pretty high tolerance for a offroad suspension truck anyway, even if you are on the road.

I've got a local shop that will actually do what I tell them, and give me a report with the numbers set where I asked, but it's expensive and they won't take the UCAs off to make adjustments. So now I have to that myself, then get them to measure, and then make any adjustments as needed.
Right - Firestone lifetime type shit doesn't cut it; you need a good alignment tech who will bill by the hour for quality work. It'll kill the homebrew setup, every time.

It's not so much a question of quality; it's actually a question of price, right?

FWIW, I'm usually on the rack for about 3 hours to set up an alignment, and that usually includes scales. :shrug:

I found a shop that will give me exactly what I want. And they will adjust the uppers. Costs me $200+ each time. I've used a lot of different alignment shops and I this one is the best, I even drive an hour there and two hours back (traffic) just for an alignment.

Buuut not any more. F that.

Like I said, doesn't matter how good the shop is. Setting alignment to specific numbers is NOT a good way to align your truck. Set the alignment to the numbers as a BASELINE, then drive it and make adjustments to those baseline numbers until it drives the way you want it to.

I already gave the example for toe. I'll give another example. If I have dead even camber and caster, I still get a slight pull. Most likely I have a little bit of setback on one side. No biggie, I simply adjust a little in order to get rid of the pull. On my truck, it tracks perfectly straight at 90 mph with the following numbers:

Left: 7.2 deg caster, -0.3 deg camber
Right: 7.3 deg caster, -0.5 deg camber

I arrived at those numbers by driving it. No way a shop is gonna care about 1/10th of a degree. betcha the machines arent even that accurate.

Another thing to note. Toe is speed dependent when you are getting into the finer nuances of how it handles. You can set toe to be stable at 40 mph, but run those 37s up to 90 mph and the drag will compress the bushings (I have poly) enough to change the toe significantly. So you have to decide based on your driving and your truck where you want the toe set. A shop cant make that decision for you.
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
I found a shop that will give me exactly what I want. And they will adjust the uppers. Costs me $200+ each time. I've used a lot of different alignment shops and I this one is the best, I even drive an hour there and two hours back (traffic) just for an alignment.

Buuut not any more. F that.

Like I said, doesn't matter how good the shop is. Setting alignment to specific numbers is NOT a good way to align your truck. Set the alignment to the numbers as a BASELINE, then drive it and make adjustments to those baseline numbers until it drives the way you want it to.

I already gave the example for toe. I'll give another example. If I have dead even camber and caster, I still get a slight pull. Most likely I have a little bit of setback on one side. No biggie, I simply adjust a little in order to get rid of the pull. On my truck, it tracks perfectly straight at 90 mph with the following numbers:

Left: 7.2 deg caster, -0.3 deg camber
Right: 7.3 deg caster, -0.5 deg camber

I arrived at those numbers by driving it. No way a shop is gonna care about 1/10th of a degree. betcha the machines arent even that accurate.

Another thing to note. Toe is speed dependent when you are getting into the finer nuances of how it handles. You can set toe to be stable at 40 mph, but run those 37s up to 90 mph and the drag will compress the bushings (I have poly) enough to change the toe significantly. So you have to decide based on your driving and your truck where you want the toe set. A shop cant make that decision for you.

Absolutely.

The numbers are only important so you can put it back where you like it after maintenance or a little to much "send it".
 

theesotericone

Build It Beat It Break It. Repeat
Fredo Baggins
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
3,494
Location
Bishop, CA
Got mine on today. Inboard front and outboard rear. I moved my SPC's from f to d to help with caster and maxed them out for positive camber. It drives pretty well but I'll get it aligned this week or next.

ZF39Ynyl.jpg


yNIKpipl.jpg
 

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,959
Age
31
Location
Yucaipa, CA
Got mine on today. Inboard front and outboard rear. I moved my SPC's from f to d to help with caster and maxed them out for positive camber. It drives pretty well but I'll get it aligned this week or next.

ZF39Ynyl.jpg


yNIKpipl.jpg
I wasn’t able to max out the caster like that. Bushings were too stiff (even though we both have whitelines) I think I have max front and neutral rear.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2019
Messages
221
Age
37
I'm so tired of having my alignment knocked out every time wheeling, there's gotta be another solution for the guys who don't run SPC UCAs.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2019
Messages
221
Age
37
There is: get a UCA with heim joints, and solid mount the lowers with these plates.

Just wanted to make sure I understand this correct but one would unscrew the heim joint (in the front or the rear) to increase/decrease caster/camber? Then tighten down at some length.

I already have uniball UCAs and I wonder if I could cut the ends off and weld on heim joints. Not sure I'd like to be the guinea pig on this though.
 

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,959
Age
31
Location
Yucaipa, CA
Just wanted to make sure I understand this correct but one would unscrew the heim joint (in the front or the rear) to increase/decrease caster/camber? Then tighten down at some length.

I already have uniball UCAs and I wonder if I could cut the ends off and weld on heim joints. Not sure I'd like to be the guinea pig on this though.
Shouldn't be difficult to do that. Just cut and tap, or cut and weld in a bung. Find some misalignment spacers that are the correct diameter and width (or close enough to modify easily. You just need spacers, not high misalignment spacers, so they should be relatively easy to find/make.
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
Just wanted to make sure I understand this correct but one would unscrew the heim joint (in the front or the rear) to increase/decrease caster/camber? Then tighten down at some length.

I already have uniball UCAs and I wonder if I could cut the ends off and weld on heim joints. Not sure I'd like to be the guinea pig on this though.

It's not at all hard, assuming that the UCAs you have use a relatively standard size tube, so you can buy a weld-in threaded bung.

And yes, your understanding is exactly right. If you want to go really crazy: measure the thread pitch on the heim joint, and measure the arm. Then you can calculate how many turns you need to hit the alignment spec you want.
 
Top Bottom